Sri Chinmoy is going to be with us forever

An interview with scholar and National Book Award-winning novelist Professor Charles Johnson.

Dr. Agraha: Do you remember when you were the head of the creative writing programme, and you presented the World Peace Literature Award to Sri Chinmoy?

Prof. Johnson: That's correct. And I had that award made down the street from my house at a store that makes trophies. And I wrote the copy, I wrote the words. It was a great pleasure for me to do that, because Sri Chinmoy's publications, his writing of a spiritual nature, is voluminous. It's many, many, many, many books. And I think they are all very valuable, which is why it's for spiritual writing, this award.

Dr. Agraha: That's right. You gave it for spiritual writing.

Prof. Johnson: I met Sri Chinmoy before that. It was even before that when he came to the University of Washington. And I remember he would lift up people.

Dr. Agraha: Oh, that was prior to that that you met him and were lifted by Sri Chinmoy?

Prof. Johnson: That's correct, yes. That was my first meeting.

Dr. Agraha: What was what was it like for you? Please tell me, what was it like for you to be lifted by Sri Chinmoy?

Prof. Johnson: Well, it was a unique experience that was like nothing I've ever experienced before. I remember what impressed me the most, certainly the deep spirituality that emanated from Sri Chinmoy, but also the kindness and generosity of all the people associated with him like yourself.

Dr. Agraha: Well, if we have kindness and generosity, we hope to have imbibed a tiny drop. I mean, imagine the kindness and the love he showered everyone with. And you spoke about that, if I recall, right after you were lifted. I'm forgetting your exact words, you said something I still remember was very deeply spiritual. You said a few words.

Prof. Johnson: I can't remember what those words were. But I do remember on a second occasion when Sri Chinmoy came to the University of Washington and we met in the Student Centre Auditorium. He played for me a Buddhist composition or song. I remember that. That was a very kind and generous gesture.

Dr. Agraha: Well, you know, Sri Chinmoy was deeply moved by your spirituality and he was so inspired. Here we have a man who is a world famous writer, National Book Award winner. And actually, I think at that time, by then, you had already been the National Book Award judge, I think.

Prof. Johnson: And I was a judge for all the contests, the Pulitzer, the National Book Award, three times for both of those.

Dr. Agraha: So he knew, he really knew about all your background. I remember him speaking about you and he was so moved that such a great writer - and he had read many of your writings, I excerpted from several of your books and also I wanted to show him a bit of the range, I showed some cartoons which you did.

Prof. Johnson: Oh, God, really? I didn't know.

Dr. Agraha: Yeah, he was astounded. And he said something like, oh, he's like me. He likes so many different types of creation.

Prof. Johnson: And we have wonderful drawings from Sri Chinmoy. I think his point, which I believe in deeply, is that if you have a spiritual practise, that spiritual practise allows you to manifest good things in many different ways, many different art forms. And in his case, with the lifting, he was addressing athletics, you know, so that for athletes, for artists, for musicians, it really helps to have a grounding in spiritual practise. You know, it's not a register or dimension that we see often enough in literary writers, it just isn't there for one reason or another. But I've always valued those people who are moving through this world on their journey, who inspire us to tap into that wealth that we have within ourselves, all of us now.

Dr. Agraha: Yes. Well, actually, that was one of the questions I wanted to ask you about was how you are a very deeply spiritual man and you put it into practise. I mean, you learned, if I am right you learn how to read Pali (the language of Buddhist scriptures) so you could read the...

Prof. Johnson: Not Pali. Sanskrit.

Dr. Agraha: Sanskrit. Even better. So you could go to the original slokas and get the real spiritual flavour. I mean, that to me is astounding. And so your living spirituality is so profound. And I was wondering how what could you say about how has it influenced your own writings?

Prof. Johnson: It's all over my writings, really, all over my writings. I've been studying Sanskrit since 1998. I will never be a Sanskrit scholar. I'm a Sanskrit student because I can't do it every day. But it's a beautiful language. It's the language of the Bhagavad Gita. It's, you know, and it's spawned or gave birth to Pali, a number of other, you know, religions as well, languages as well, Marathi, Hindi, you know. So it really is a base for understanding many, many things. But yeah, this, this is very important. I say that if we have a spiritual practise, then I don't tell anyone what their spiritual practise should be if they're honestly pursuing it because that will make them a person, a man or woman of peace and generosity towards others. Right. And we need people to remind us of that so much right now in our world.

Dr. Agraha: Yes.

Prof. Johnson: There's so much violence in America. There's the terrible, terrible things that are happening in Ukraine right now. Break my heart. So we really need those people who understand the importance of non-violence, our connectedness to each other, the richness that we all possess within ourselves to do good and to create beauty in this world.

Dr. Agraha: That's beautiful. Well, I am grateful to hear that. My next question I was going to ask you about when you first met Sri Chinmoy, what it was like. And you've shared that with me beautifully. And I want to ask you something that has struck me so profoundly. But you had told me something was in 2009, after Sri Chinmoy's passing and you dictated this, I think, on the phone. Or you may have sent it to me, but you said I am a strong Buddhist and I wish to say that every age needs an Avatar. The Christ, the Buddha, Lord Krishna have all come as avatars for the entire world. The Avatar for our era is Sri Chinmoy, you said.

Prof. Johnson: Well, I don't remember exactly writing that, but I do believe in the truth behind those words. We do need avatars, people who are leading, leading a spiritual life to give us an example, to give the rest of us an example. I believe Sri Chinmoy was devoted to doing just that.

Dr. Agraha: Yes. In every way that was his life, to to help inspire us. And he actually wrote, he wrote separate plays and other books about, these are his Avatar plays, one on the Christ, one on Lord Buddha. I could send you the one on Lord Buddha, particularly if you're interested, because it's it's just a beautiful, beautiful kind of is his telling of, you know, the story of Lord Buddha's life. But then in his way, it's quite lovely.

Prof. Johnson: I would like to receive it. I have many, many of Sri Chinmoy books here in my house.

Dr. Agraha: And I know he's always wanted to present you with them. You know, this is something you wrote and you said in 2004, you said to him, and it kind of interests me as a spiritual writer - he wrote to you, you are a supremely great writer, and yet you have most generously inundated me with your appreciation-ocean for my spiritual creations. He sent you a letter with that. And then after his passing, you very kindly read out the 'Wisdom' chapter from The Jewels of Happiness.

Prof. Johnson: That's correct, yes.

Dr. Agraha: And it was to me, of all the chapters anyone read, it was the most moving. It was so beautifully. You have a sonorous voice, but also your depth of spirituality is so powerful. And I wonder if you can share with us, because you're a supremely great writer, as you said, how you how you experience Sri Chinmoy's writings.

Prof. Johnson: Well, they're like, I could express it in many, many ways. They are like a breath of fresh air. They're like oxygen when you need oxygen. They are a reminder of our possibilities, you know, for pursuing the good, the true and the beautiful in this life. And they have a great deal of generosity.

Dr. Agraha: That's beautiful. I know that Sri Chinmoy in his life, he always wanted to try new things. Even in lifting, in the last year. He said to me, can you think of some new things I can do in the lifting world? And I had an inspiration that he could lift a huge, huge air balloon, it would weigh a lot of weight, but he could lift it and it would be beautiful. So he did it. He was open to anything new and he loved newness. I'm wondering, in your life, you've basically won almost every award? I mean, hopefully you'll be getting the Nobel Prize in literature. That's what I'm hoping.

Prof. Johnson: That's very political. So I don't know.

Dr. Agraha: In the case of Sri Chinmoy also, he should have, I think, gotten it for Peace. But anyway, I know you you should be the one.

Prof. Johnson: You are very kind.

Dr. Agraha: Do you have certain, certain things in mind, in your heart or in your inner vision of new, writing experiences or new other experiences that you hope to share with the world? Or is it or are you just kind of taking it by how it comes to you?

Prof. Johnson: Well, I'm writing constantly right now. I'm writing a talk I have to give to a group in Texas of South Asians on the importance of democracy and participation in our political lives. So that's that's where my focus is right now. I give lots of talks. I've been retired from teaching now for 14 years. But I write all manner of things, whether they're essays or book reviews or philosophical essays, you know, things that people request. And every year I read a new story for Humanities Washington's Bedtime Stories fundraiser in October. And I started that event in 1998. Actually, I gave them the idea, and I've written the story every year for them, a different story.

So one of the wonderful things about creativity is you're never - if you're not a genre writer, if you're a serious literary writer, everything you do is different. Every project you take on has different problems to be solved, and every one will lead you to new discovery. Unlike the other things that you've done. So your mind is always being fresh, being challenged. And to me, that's one of the wonders and beauties of a creative work, of any kind.

Dr. Agraha: So you have a being that is younger than most people who are like 15 or 16. I mean,  you're so growing, you're constantly - you're alive, you're creative, and many people who are 15, 16, 17, even, they're already ossified, you know, in what they're saying. But you have like this freshness about you.

Prof. Johnson: Well, I do think that it has to do with my curiosity about life and the world and knowing more new things, gathering new skills as much as I can. I'll be in a couple of weeks, 74 years old. I have been working steadily since I was a teenager and studying, obviously, all my entire life. You see, here's the thing I believe. I believe that life is a gift. Every life is a gift. And one of the ways that we show the appreciation for that gift is doing things for others. It might be creating gifts for them in literature or teaching, you know, is a gift that we're giving to the next generation. So every night in my prayers and meditations, I always express gratitude for the gift of life.

Dr. Agraha: It's interesting you say that word because someone once asked Sri Chinmoy about gratitude, and he said if you pray for gratitude, that is the only quality you need to pray for because gratitude encompasses every divine quality.

Prof. Johnson: And that's yes.

Dr. Agraha: If you have gratitude, you'll have peace, love, joy, happiness, service, everything. So all you have to do, pray for gratitude. And that's interesting you say gratitude.

Prof. Johnson: I think it's very important - thanksgiving, gratitude. The world we live in is a very beautiful place when we listen to our better angels, better angels and our spiritual teachers. Our better angels, they are the ones who remind us that every moment of our life is fresh and new. Every day, every moment.

Dr. Agraha: You're so right. What you're saying is very true. Sri Chinmoy kept emphasising that.

Prof. Johnson: Regardless of the tradition one is in, any religion, any spiritual tradition, those wise men and women say many, if not all of the same things, because their path and attainment is brought into a common human, universal wisdom. So you can find it in Judaism and Christianity and Hinduism and Buddhism. No one religion is, seems to me, or spiritual orientation has a monopoly on the truth.

Dr. Agraha: That's right.

Prof. Johnson: And so very often, you know, you hear the same things being said sometimes in different ways, different words. But it is always expressing gratitude for the gift of life.

Dr. Agraha: That's true. In fact, someone asked Sri Chinmoy once, they said, What is your religion? He said, I was born into a Hindu family, but now my religion is to love God and serve humanity. That is my religion.  

Prof. Johnson: That's it. That's all one needs to say or do.

Dr. Agraha: Well, let me ask you one more question, you have so much insight. Let us say, if Sri Chinmoy were sitting with you now, right across from you. And you were to say, Sri Chinmoy, the world is having a lot of, like you said, a lot of challenges right now. What is your advice for us? Where do you think he would say?

Prof. Johnson: What do I think he would say?

Dr. Agraha: His guidance.

Prof. Johnson: I would think he would say that we need to have compassion for each other, and love each other as much as we seem to love ourselves, and understand that all beings, all sentient beings experience suffering and want happiness. Those two things, Buddhists always talk about that. So maybe Sri Chinmoy would say the same thing. All sentient beings want happiness and freedom from suffering. If we can understand that, you will not want to increase suffering for any other sentient beings, and you want them to experience happiness and you feel joy in their happiness at the same time.

Dr. Agraha: That's true. I remember when, when Sri Chinmoy met you, for example, and he was just so happy, it was like had met a seeker, a very strong, powerful spiritual seeker. And when you honoured him, it was almost - yes, it was a great honour, but it was also, oh, here's someone I can count on, here's someone who's a part of my heart.  

Prof. Johnson: I can say that one of the blessings of my life, during my journey through life is that I had the opportunity to meet and know Sri Chinmoy.

Dr. Agraha: Can you say one more thing about that? Anything else, what that gave you?

Prof. Johnson: I have a photograph of him and me together that was taken at one of those events, and he is giving me a bow. And I just felt the spiritual connection so strongly. You want to smile when you're in his presence. You feel peace when you're in his presence. And that is, believe me, a gift. He is going to be with us, you, me, forever. I mean, he is a part of us.